Testing the TravelScoot Battery Limit

Hi Elizabeth, Yesterday I hung my Nokia cellphone in a bag on the front handlebars. My cell phone has GPS. I put it on "Trip Meter". I then took a non-stop trip around the neighborhood. When I got back it read -
	Top Speed	9 KmPh (6 mph)
	Distance traveled	10.2 Km (6.3 miles)
	Total Time	1hr 05 min.
I did this with one small Li-ion battery. Never did show yellow. Regards to you and everyone on your blog, Elford

Battery Information from Hardy Huber

Hardy Huber, if there's anyone here who doesn't know who he is, is the genius who invented the TravelScoot. Hardy recommends that you print out this page to take with you when you travel by air with your lithium ion battery in case there are any problems.

http://safetravel.dot.gov/larger_batt.html

Hardy says when he is asked what battery it is, his answer is always non-spillable and so far it makes them always satisfied.

In the picture above, the green battery is an SLA and the smaller gold one underneath it is the single size lithium ion.

Lithium Ion battery refused on Alaska Airlines flight

From Vickie:

I tried to take my Travel Scoot on a flight on Alaska Airlines last week and was denied boarding due to the litium ion battery. I have the 24 gram battery and was told that the FAA only allows lead acid batteries on mobility devices except for Segways. Anyone else ever have this problem?

Vickie,

I looked on the TravelScoot website, at http://travelscoot.com/prices.htm and there are two lithium ion batteries. There is the 9.6 Ah Li-Ion that is approved for air travel and the 18 Ah Li-Ion that is not approved for air travel. The 24 gram one is the smaller battery, which is approved for airline travel.

The Department of Transportation rules governing lithium ion batteries on airline flights are at http://safetravel.dot.gov/larger_batt.html . I print a copy of this and take it with me when I fly with my lithium ion battery.

The FAA regulations are available here:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ash/ash_programs/hazmat/media/MaterialsCarriedByPassengersAndCrew.pdf

Look on pages 7-9 to see the battery regulations. If you go to page 9, regulation 49 CFR 175.10(a) is cited and says (in part), "...For a lithium-ion battery, an aggregate equivalent lithium content of not more than 8 grams per battery, except that up to two batteries with an aggregate equivalent lithium content of more than 8 grams but not more than 25 grams may be carried."

This is from the FAA's PDF:

"The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is responsible for the security screening of passengers and their baggage at U.S. airports. For questions about TSA "prohibited items" or other air travel security measures please go to: http://www.tra.gov or contact the TSA Contact Center at: 1-866-289-9673 or TSA-ContactCenter@dhs.gov."
Elizabeth

When Leo Roars!: The larger lithium ion battery

The battery in front is the single lithium ion battery and the one in the back is the larger double lithium ion battery.

My new double lithium ion battery, who we've named Leo the L'ion, is a workhorse. Yesterday I parked my car at Walmart, drove to Sam's Club and shopped there with Rhonda. Then we went back to the car and into Walmart to shop there. After Walmart and another trip back to the car, I took off by myself to Kohl's and shopped that store. The battery handled it beautifully. When I tried this same thing with the single lithium ion battery a few months ago, I made it from Sam's Club to Walmart and my battery overloaded at the front door of Walmart.

A Bag for the Cub (the smaller lithium ion battery)

From B'racha:

I got this insulated wine bag for $4.99 at a TJ Maxx, hoping it would work for the cub (the smaller lithium ion battery), which I had been carrying in an ugly, and cumbersome, "camelback" carrier.

As you can see from the pix, it is great. I believe the Company makes other, larger varieties, but whether there are any Leo shaped I don't know.

A close watch at places like TJ Maxx, Marshalls, and even Tuesday Morning (if one has them in their area) might unearth a larger neoprene, for a reasonable price, capable of holding LEO (the larger lithium ion battery).

Southwest Airlines Battery Inspection

This is a Southwest Airlines Battery Inspection tag from Lynn Ellen lithium ion batteries. It says:

This device has been inspected and contains the following type of battery. The options are DRY/GEL CELL and WET CELL. The DRY/GEL CELL box is checked. At the bottom the tag says, "THIS ASSISTIVE DEVICE HAS BEEN INSPECTED AND IS ACCEPTABLE FOR CARRIAGE PER xx cfr xxx.xx. (I can't read the X's.)

Air travel with the Li-ion battery

This post began on Facebook. Hopefully some of you will have more helpful comments for Denise.

Denise:

Question about air travel....have you flown with your Li-ion battery? United told me today that I can not and will have to use my SLA. What has been your experience Elizabeth. We are flying Washington IAD to Rome in 10 days.

B'racha:

Hmm, I was under the impression that the small Li-ion met regulations & that only the new, larger one did not. Ok, I just checked, http://www.travelscoot.com/batteries.htm  and the DOT site http://safetravel.dot.gov/larger_batt.html  and the small LI-ion IS approved for airline travel. One gram more and it would not be allowed.

Marlee:

On the website CruiseCritic's disabled travel forum (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190 ), Hardy personally answered this question as follows:

"TravelScoot on airlines: The FAA regulations about Lithium batteries are for stand alone batteries or in conjuction with general equipment. For batteries in mobility devices they have relaxed rules, see http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ash/ash_programs/hazmat/media/MaterialsCarriedByPassengersAndCrew.pdf  According to that the airline only want to know whether the battery is spillable or non-spillable. Even spillable batteries are permitted but they will be stored in special boxes and kept upright.

All TravelScoot batteries are non-spillable are marked as such."

If/when you call United back AT THE AIRPORT, ask to speak to the 'CRO' aka the Crisis Resolution Officer. This person is required to be on call 24/7 and knows all the Air Carrier Act stuff that the regular staff doesn't know.


From United's own website http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6867,1040,00.html,


"United will check your personal wheelchair free of charge along with luggage. Battery-powered wheelchairs—with dry cell, wet cell, gel cell, or non-spillable electric storage batteries—are acceptable, but certain safety procedures must be followed in preparing the wheelchair for carriage.


Reservations personnel will be happy to answer any specific questions."


I'm flying Continental with my Travelscoot tomorrow for the first time and will report back.

Elizabeth:

Denise, I have flown on 4 flights with my Li-ion battery, and never had a minute's trouble, but it was inside the US. Lynn Ellen flew to Australia with her scoot and two Li-ion batteries, and didn't have any trouble that I know of. Maybe she'll see this thread and comment. I really agree with what Marlee said about calling United.

The photo above is of Lynn Ellen at the beginning of her flight to Australia.  You can't see it, but she's got two Li-ion batteries attached under ALL THAT LUGGAGE!

Battery information from an electrical engineer

I received this email from Bill Fabrey. Bill was a founder of NAAFA. He's also the owner of Amplestuff, a store that carries things for plus and supersize folks. Most importantly for us, he's an electical engineer.

Elizabeth:

You are doing a wonderful job on your Travel Scoot mailings! The photos are excellent, and the information is vital. I want a Travel Scoot, and I don't even have trouble walking!

Just so you will know, the larger lithium-ion battery is less likely to overheat simply because its capacity is so much greater. It has to do with "energy density". If you are traveling with a heavier load, or uphill, or on a carpet or wooden bridge, as in your example, the current demanded from the motor is greater--which leads to more heat in the motor (causing it to trip out now and then--even in so-called heavy-duty scooters with 450 lb weight limits.) The same increased current that heats up the motor also heats up the battery. The smaller the battery, the greater the temperature rise for the same current flow. With lead-acid batteries, the effect is negligible, but lithium-ion batteries, even though they store so much more energy per pound of battery weight, are more temperature sensitive. Heat is the Achillies heel of lithium batteries.


It is analogous to a horse pulling a plow. A mule pulling the same plow through difficult soil at the same rate of speed will heat up faster, and refuse to continue. A draft horse or oxen (or team) pulling the same plow, doesn't get phased.


OK, another example: Driving a model-A Ford up Mt. Washington vs. driving a Lincoln up the same incline. The model-A will boil off all its anti-freeze and refuse to continue.

:-)


Bill Fabrey (electrical engineer--retired)


PS - Confession: Despite my advancing years, I have not PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED driving a horse pulling a plow, or driving a Model A. I have, however, driven a Lincoln up Mt. Washington. Yes, it overheated, but within tolerable limits. Even though the luggage plus the passengers exceeded its rated capacity. (Knowing me, you will not be surprised to learn that the passengers were of the generously-proportioned variety. LOL).

Reviewing the new battery, or "Leo goes to the Zoo"

I'm still struggling with what to call the new larger lithium ion battery, but I like B'racha's suggestion of Leo the Li-on (or should it be Leo the L'ion?), so I'll try that moniker on for this post, especially since my first adventure with it was at the zoo. First let's hear what Cynth has to say about hers. I snitched this from a post on her Facebook page...

Speaking of my new "gold brick". The parking lot where I usually shop has a fairly good slope to it. I try to park on the down hill side of the slope so I don't have to worry about my scoot making it up the slope with me and all my groceries. Today the store was packed and I had to park at the top of the slope.


I spent nearly $200 on groceries and what not (I have company coming this week) so you know I had lots of poundage in my TrolleyBasket and hanging from my scoot. Not to mention the 400+ pounds of fabulous sitting on the seat.


The regular Lithium Ion battery would flash yellow at me when I attempted this slope in the past with this much of a load. The double did not flash yellow once I gave it full throttle all the way to the car. I hope it keeps performing like this I was impressed.

In a previous post I wrote about the Tulane Transplant "Gift of Life" Celebration on Saturday, which was held at the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans. After the celebration Alan and I headed out to enjoy the zoo and put Leo through his paces. I can't explain the technology behind this new battery, but Hardy did tell me that it should work better on inclines. Was he right?

Saturday was an extremely hot day and I scooted over lots of surfaces from grass, to cobblestones, to some uneven wood planks, and many places where there were gaps in the concrete or where the cut outs weren't as smooth as they could have been. My scoot handled it all beautifully. It went over small bridges and up inclines like a champion, even though it was a blisteringly hot day.

The BEST part is that Leo never overloaded, not even once, and given past experience, I am quite certain the smaller lithium ion battery would have. I give it several big gold stars. Yeah!

In the pictures below I'm trying to catch up with the zoo train. Rhonda would describe this as "mama duck and baby duck." If you look closely you can see that I have both my lithium ion batteries stacked. I never needed the smaller one.
 

What do we call it?

I think this new lithium ion battery needs a clever nickname. What do you think we should call it?

Leave a comment please. :-)

Cynth's Battery Scare

Written by Cynth:
I too bought one of the "gold brick" double Lithium Ion batteries. I took it for a test drive last night in Home Depot.

I love Home Depot for its wide isles and smooth floor lol I found isles that had no people or objects in the way and "floored it" down and back (Yes I slowed down at intersecting isles) but I needed to test out my new battery.. and besides it was fun :) I spent an hour doing this and actually doing some shopping and the battery worked flawlessly.

The other reason I was at Home Depot was to purchase a voltage meter. I had a recent "scare" with my Lithium Ion battery (the regular one). I came home after doing some shopping for a friend of mine who is in assisted living. I used the scoot in the store and the assisted living center. The battery had been fully charged before I left that day.

I plugged in the battery before I went to bed and woke up expecting a green light on the charger. Instead there was a flashing red light on the right side and solid red on the left.

So I unplugged the battery and the charger and tried again. I kept getting flashing red on the charger meaning the battery wasn't charging.

I of coursed went into panic mode at the thought of being without a battery and emailed Hardy and Elizabeth in a flurry of emails. (sorry!)

I wanted to buy another Lithium Ion battery thinking my battery was bad, but all of the Lithium Ion batteries were in transit from Florida to Washington state (TravelScoot is moving!). But Hardy did have one of the new double size Lithium Ion batteries available so I purchased it.

Well it turns out that it was not my Lithium Ion battery it was the charger that was bad. (yea!) In order to find this out I had to buy a voltage meter to test my battery after charging it on the new charger that came with the double sized Lithium Ion.

After running the double sized Lithium Ion battery around I plugged it into the charger that came with the regular Lithium Ion battery to make sure it was the charger that was bad, it was.

Long story (very long sorry!) short. My battery charger went bad. If you plug in your Lithium Ion battery (in the correct sequence) and keep getting a flashing red light on the charger, don't panic it could just be a bad charger.

Also during this time of "omg no battery panic", Hardy sent me a "kit" to make my own SLA battery with so I would not be without a battery (Hardy is awesome). I purchased the batteries to make it with locally. I will keep the SLA battery in my trunk for emergencies.

I plan on making a video on "How to make your own SLA emergency battery" over the weekend and hope to have it posted soon.

I feel MUCH more comfortable knowing I can find the parts I need around town to make my own battery and be back in Scootin business in one day.

The "Mac Daddy" of Lithium Ion Batteries

TravelScoot has a new higher-capacity lithium ion battery available. I don't pretend to be a battery expert, but my understanding is that there are 3 battery options for your TravelScoot. More information is available at http://www.travelscoot.com/batteries.htm, but nothing is there yet about the newest battery.

1) Sealed Lead Acid $165

It's the least expensive, and can withstand being left in a hot car trunk, but it weighs 20 lbs and hasn't the lowest capacity of any of the batteries. A 180-lb person will get about 8 miles out of this battery on a level surface.

2) Lithium Ion (single capacity) $695

More expensive than the SLA battery, but only weighs 6 lbs. A 180-lb person will get about 12 miles out of this battery on a level surface.

3) Lithium Ion (new) $1295

The mostly costly and the highest capacity. Hardy Huber (TravelScoot owner) weighs 240 lbs and he gets 22 miles continuous driving on a level surface. He says it's only 2 1/4 pounds heavier than the single capacity.

I own all three batteries. My favorite for most trips is the single capacity lithium ion. It's lightweight and works well for me in most situations. I bought an SLA so I could leave it in the trunk of my car. I use it when I'm out and about and need my scooter, but hadn't planned ahead and brought the lithium ion battery. I bought the new lithium ion battery because I am a TravelScoot junkie I depend on my TravelScoot for everyday use and have had a few times where I've needed more battery capacity than I had. Keep in mind that I'm over 400 lbs. and it takes more power to pull me around than it does most of you. I haven't used my new battery yet, but I'll be trying it out this weekend at the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans.

If I could only own one battery it would be the single capacity lithium ion. There is a huge difference in weight between the SLA and the lithium ion and I feel it EVERY time I lift it in and out of the trunk of my car.  Ask me after this weekend and "Mac Daddy" will probably be my favorite. 

The "Mac Daddy" Lithium Ion TravelScoot Battery

(Mac Daddy: Biggest and Baddest)

New battery charger

The (original) single capacity sitting in front of the new, higher capacity battery

Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) Battery

I recently purchased a second battery for my TravelScoot. My first battery is the light-weight lithium ion battery. For my second battery I got an SLA battery.

The advantage of the SLA battery is that it's less expensive than the lithium ion battery, and it doesn't need to be protected from heat like the lithium ion battery. It also won't overload and shut off in a high stress situation. The best advantage, and the reason I got it, is because I can leave it in the trunk of my car with my TravelScoot and use the scoot at any time. Before I had to remember to have my lithium ion battery with me, and also carry it with me so it stays cool.

The disadvantage of the SLA battery is that it is HEAVY! With the SLA battery my scoot weighs 49 lbs. With the lithium ion battery it weighs 35 lbs. I solve that problem by lifting the battery in and out of my car separately from the scoot.

I tried the SLA battery for this first time this morning in Walmart. It worked great. I zipped around the store like I always do, and I didn't notice any difference in the way the scoot handled at all.

I'm happy having both types of batteries, but eventually I'll add a second lithium ion battery, so I can travel with two lightweight batteries. I'll still keep an SLA battery for my car.

In the picture the larger battery (in green) is the SLA battery, and the smaller battery (in gold) is the lithium ion battery. It's great that you can stack them too, and it's easy to do.

For more information on the difference between the batteries, go to http://www.travelscoot.com/batteries.htm.